Reader Question: How to Protect Yourself in Private Sales?
I got a message from Mike:
I recently read one of your articles that mentioned the craigslist “like” gun site. My question is, much like the real craigslist, is there are a lot of fraud/criminal set up situations on these sites? How do I know a legit seller from someone who is just trying to setup criminal activity?
First off, thanks for stopping by the site and for your question! Buyer beware is the the ultimate guideline regardless of where you do business. While there’s no 100% reliable way to determine if someone is legit or not, there are some guidelines you can follow that will greatly help to protect you and your money.
Let me start by saying your biggest asset is your instinct. It is NEVER wrong to err on the side of caution. Even if your logical brain is saying “everything seems to checks out” but you have some sneaking suspicion, it’s better to miss out on a good deal than to risk your life. Keep in mind, it’s not like we’re trading Pokemon cards here. You can be 99.9% certain the other person has a gun because that’s what you’re trying to buy from them. I’m not mincing words here. On the surface you will always be placing yourself in a potentially VERY bad situation and you should keep that in mind.
Protecting yourself starts when you’re browsing the site. That old adage of “too good to be true” applies here as well. You can be pretty sure that the “like new Gen4 Glock 19” for $50.00 is a scam. There’s a fine line between “good deal” and “suspicious deal”. Knowing the market is the best way to sift through the junk in this case.
So you’ve found a decent deal. Time to contact the seller. Make sure you ask a lot of questions. Things like the condition of the gun, year it was purchased, number of rounds, what it was used for, condition of accessories and how it was stored can provide a lot of insight into what you’re getting into. It’s also a test of the seller now. If they’re hesitant to answer, find another posting. If the answers don’t make sense, find another posting.
What do I mean by “don’t make sense”? Let’s say you found an ad for a Gen4 Glock 19 in good condition for, say $480. You send them a message with my suggested questions and the seller says they bought the gun in 2009 and they’ve put about 300 rounds through it. He had it as a carry gun and the gun is like new.
Sounds good on the surface but let’s think about this for a second. While the Glock 19 is a great carry gun, when you carry any pistol is puts more wear on it than normal. Would it be “like new” with 5 years of carry? Possible but doubtful. Also, 300 rounds in 5 years? When I got my first gun, I barely shot it at all but I still put about 500 rounds through it in the first year. That raises another red flag with me. There’s one other thing, however. It’s a big thing but not very obvious. Did you spot it? The Gen4 Glocks weren’t released until July 2010. It’s possible the guy had the date wrong in his head but that, combined with the other red flags, would end this deal for me. Time to find a new post.
Keep in mind, it won’t always be this obvious. Knowing about what you’re buying, however, goes a long way to help. Wikipedia is always your friend and if you can find a good firearm related message board, that’s just gravy.
So let’s say that the seller actually answered everything satisfactorily. Pay attention to his attitude. There’s nothing wrong with trying to make a sale but being overly pushy should be a huge red flag. If the seller is nice and agreeable, let’s move to the next step: the purchase.
If he’s in another state, the sale gets super easy. You’ll have to go through an FFL and they can deal with the risk. If it’s in the same city or a neighboring city, this is where it gets a bit hairy. Make sure everything is agreed upon BEFORE you agree to meet. Agree on a price as well as how and where it will be done.
Let me pause here for a moment. Most of the advice so far and following has been about protecting your life and money. There’s an important detail that needs to be covered between agreeing to the sale and leaving to actually seal the deal. I can’t stress this part enough, however: you NEED to be sure of the laws of your city, state and county when it comes to private sales. A lot of places have changed their laws lately and others just have wonky laws. Make sure you know what will be needed to keep everything 100% legal. Imagine if a cop walks up to you while you’re completing the deal. You want to make sure you have crossed all your T’s and dotted all your lowercase j’s.
Even beyond just the law, make sure you have a bill of sale and make sure there’s 2 signed copies. That way he can’t just claim you stole the gun after the fact. The bill of sale is as much for your own protection as it is for the seller.
When it comes to the transaction itself, the best advice here is to follow the same guidelines they tell women going on a first blind date…kind of. First off, you’ll want to meet in a relatively populated area. Make sure it’s not a place that bans guns, mind you. While most of those signs don’t hold legal weight, it’s still just not a good idea from an image standpoint. Gas stations and strip mall parking lots are great options. Don’t ever do this after dark, by the way. That’s just asking for trouble. If at all possible, bring a friend. If you have a friend with a carry permit, even better. I’m not a lawyer but in most states, there are rules about carrying guns in a car. If your friend has a gun but not a permit, check into those rules and bring the friend along to truly ride shotgun. That way the seller isn’t the only one that’s armed.
If you absolutely can’t find anyone to go with you, make sure people know where you will be and keep them updated as you go along. While it may sound like some movie cliche, it might not hurt to have someone that you check in regularly with and if they stop hearing from you for too long, they’re to call the police.
Now we’re to the riskiest part. You don’t want to do this in the middle of the parking lot. It’s going to have to be in one of your cars. You don’t have to get fully in his car and he doesn’t have to get in yours. You can be leaning through a window but keep in mind, that could look suspicious. Like I said, you’re not doing anything illegal but that hasn’t stopped people and police from getting involved before. Give the gun a final once over. Make absolutely sure it’s the one you’ve been talking to him about. Make sure everything is there. Keep your safety rules in mind here. Check it for empty before you start to examine. Also, from an etiquette standpoint, ask before dry firing. If it meets your expectations, hand over the cash, fill out the bill of sale, shake hands and call it a day.
One of the hardest things about a deal like this is remembering that the deal isn’t final until until cash has changed hands. You can pull out at ANY point. If the gun doesn’t meet expectations, if it wasn’t what you agreed on, if he tries to suddenly up the price figuring you won’t want to leave empty handed, or if he just acts like a super shady character. Whatever the reason is, if you’re not comfortable with the deal, call it a day. Don’t be pressured to finish a deal you’re not 100% comfortable with.
In the end, a lot of this stuff was worst case scenario. In most cases, it’s going to be a super smooth process that will go off without a hitch and both parties will be happy. You’ll have a nice new (to you) gun and the other guy will have a couple hundred bucks in his pocket. That age old advice of “Buyer beware” is your best friend. Good luck on your shopping and be safe. Let us know how it turns out!
Hope that answers your question. Thanks again for writing in, Mike!
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